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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: February 29th, 2012, 1:21 am 
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ghostdiva wrote:
Hey Jason- What the One More Day story line?

like spidermans one more day. where they broke up spidman and MJ and set them back to their pre married stat.

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: February 29th, 2012, 9:27 am 
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I sort of suspect 'Roger' might be a pseudonym, but then he mentioned on Twitter about Egon meeting him sooooooooo I am likely wrong.


That thought occured to me too at one point, though, yeah, his tweet does kind of puncture that. But it would have been hilarious to see Venkman and Winston find out that Egon and Janine have been seeing each other for weeks, and Egon's been signing his name "Roger" on the flowers and stuff just to keep them in the dark.

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you make a lot of good points there. Say if the hook up how long do you think it will be before the :egon: and :janine: one more day story line comes out ?


Ungh. Thank goodness Marvel isn't publishing this. We know how much Joe Q apparently hates redheads in strong relationships. In addition to "One More Day", check out my mini-rant about what he allowed Morrison to do to Scott and Jean Summers :x

I realize that there's one other thing the Egon/Janine relationship has going for it, the same reason it became so imporant in the first place: namely that it's the only movie-canon relationship even available right now.

The reason it became so big to a lot of us in the first place? Dana Barrett wasn't in the cartoon, closing off the Dana/Venkman romance so important to the movies. Louis isn't in the IDW comic either, and following suit from GB2 is gonna make a lot of fans go like this :hurl: anyway.

Ray never had a love interest in the movies (the closest he got to it was turned into a dream sequence). Winston never did either. On the one hand, it certainly gives the IDW guys room to make something up (ie Winston's new love interest in "Tainted Love"), but on the other, it lacks connection with the movies.

So you want to remind people of something from the movies (and we know they love doing that), this is all they've got right now in the romance department.

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: February 29th, 2012, 1:03 pm 
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Yeah, Jean would roll in her grave...if she'd just stay in it. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: April 11th, 2012, 8:29 am 
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Whoa, been waiting for a thread like this since the beginning of Internet! It isn't even dead, rejoice.

So, I'm mainly focused on RGB and E/J is an important part of it. Because Janine got lobotomized in SRGB I prefer the earlier seasons. Of course I'm quite familiar with GB and EGB. Been collecting a lot, so things like the NOW comics and Marvel magazines stay safely on a shelf. Because of being an old nerd I've got all eps on tape since they first aired here and in progress of uploading alternative RGB dubbing on YouTube, as it's turned out no one else has them.

Been hard to find good RGB fanfic, especially E/J, so I'm happy Fritz kicked it back to life. Have written RGB fanfic since 1990 and have no less than three stories in progress at the moment. Of course I don't miss out on putting a spark in the relationship of the reluctant Spengler and that stubborn Melnitz from time to time. My stories used to reside at my site, but it's not up anymore, and I made a not so bright carrier on the dreaded RGB fanfic mailing list. Hate it when I try to find decent RGB stories and a sickening amount seems to be slash and smarm. My stories tends to be left out in the cold on link lists and such, but writing them is the best part. Recently I found out at least four of them were turned into professional fanmade audiobooks, so they can't be that bad. Lol.

Also been doing art and some short comics. Because English is my second language I was more known for illustrations. Egon and Janine are my favorite target. Always had a bit of a crush on him. So, long post, but is happy I got a chance to talk about E/J. Patented Egon-smiley must be included in this lovely thread: @:8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: April 11th, 2012, 9:29 am 
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Oh man, links to fic please! And welcome to Ectozone. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: April 11th, 2012, 10:56 am 
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Campi? The Campi? Awesome! Your site was on my links list back when it existed. You did some great art--I still have some of it on my hard drive.

Welcome to the Ectozone nut house
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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: April 11th, 2012, 12:08 pm 
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Fritz wrote:
First of all, I don't think "Movie Egon shows no interest in her" is necessarily completely accurate.

Certainly we see the very beginnings of their potential relationship in GB1. He's obviously more annoyed by her at first than anything, but there are a couple of subtle cues. Taking her hand and running out of the exploding fire house with her is one. More notable is the very end, during the closing credits: when she runs up to him after the Gozer battle and embraces him, it's the only time in the first movie that he ever smiles.


They also embrace when Louis is possessed and Janine worries he's going to die. Then there's the added embrace in the deleted scenes, if anyone thinks of that as part of the film. For someone who's apparently 'not interested' and keeps his emotions in check, Movie Egon does a heck of a lot of touchy-feely hugging and hand-holding with her. :D :lol:

That's not even considering the fact that they have only been working together for a few weeks at most, so they would barely even know each other by that point. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that you see more emotional affection demonstrated in the interactions between Egon and Janine than you do between Peter and Dana. It's all the more reason why its puzzling that E/J didn't end up together in GB2. :roll:

Actually, it does irritate me that the Peter/Dana pairing is accepted without question and yet the Egon/Janine pairing apparently won't work, because of this and that and blah blah blah. Just as some people think Movie Egon 'shows no interest' in Janine, Movie Dana seems to show even less interest in Peter Venkman (even going as far as to throw him out of her apartment), but no-one determines the worth of their relationship based on that. Dana is as opposite in personality to Venkman as Egon is to Janine, yet no-one uses it as an excuse as to why they shouldn't be together. In fact, with Dana having a boyfriend already and Peter having to muscle in on him, it seems there were more obstacles in their way than Egon and Janine, yet even that didn't ultimately prevent Peter/Dana from getting together (just as Louis shouldn't ever prevent Egon and Janine from getting together!!!).

It just doesn't make sense to me that one couple can be universally accepted while another couple are considered a more 'controversial' option that requires debate, especially when there are arguably very similar traits between the two. Let's face it, if Dana were allowed to be featured in the IDW comics, I doubt there would be a separate thread on the IDW boards dedicated to whether Peter and Dana should hook up again as there is with Egon and Janine.

With regards to the IDW comics, I also thought Roger was a pseudonym (it's interesting how many people considered this a possibility). It'd be interesting to see how that turns out, though from recent comments on the IDW boards I have a feeling we'll be waiting a while.

And a warm welcome to campi! I remember your fics from way back! Glad to see you here! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: April 13th, 2012, 9:34 am 
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nikki wrote:
That's not even considering the fact that they have only been working together for a few weeks at most, so they would barely even know each other by that point. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that you see more emotional affection demonstrated in the interactions between Egon and Janine than you do between Peter and Dana. It's all the more reason why its puzzling that E/J didn't end up together in GB2. :roll:


I've said for a long time it would have provided such a great, and even funny, contrast to have had Egon and Janine married in GB2. The high-profile "A" couple crashes and burns, while the lower-key "B" couple is married and happy.

And for all of Ramis's blather on the commentary track about how Egon and Janine were "failed" and "mawkish"? Is there anyone besides him who thinks that GB2's awkward and sleazy burlesque show was better?

Quote:
It just doesn't make sense to me that one couple can be universally accepted while another couple are considered a more 'controversial' option that requires debate, especially when there are arguably very similar traits between the two. Let's face it, if Dana were allowed to be featured in the IDW comics, I doubt there would be a separate thread on the IDW boards dedicated to whether Peter and Dana should hook up again as there is with Egon and Janine.


I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head, at least as far as the ownership/creative side of the issues. Fandom? I've been in online fandom for over nine years now--it's pretty much lopsided the other way. All you get against Egon and Janine are a couple of immature fangirls; it's actually almost a nonissue with the wider fandom ("Well, duh, they're a couple. Now let's talk about the PKE Meter toy being .0065 inches off..."). Whether Dana should be around is where debates seem to really start, with some wide disagreement over 'She should be around and they should be together because otherwise it makes Venkman pathetic and it basically wastes the entire character arc of the movies" vs. "I don't want her anywhere near this because Venkman should be alone and on the prowl because it's funnier that way".

Though even then, notice it's clearly assumed that if Dana is around, she's Venkman's love interest. There's nobody going "Dana should be around, but she should be shagging Louis Tully" crap.

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: April 13th, 2012, 4:49 pm 
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I may have already mentioned this, but Louis always kind of creeped me out because he's a stalker. No, really. He waits for Dana to come home, he watches for her at the party he's hosting, he tries to break into her apartment to presumably do something nice by turning off her TV when her super probably has keys to every apartment in the place, and outside of all of that mess he's truly pathetic in his own right.

Louis Tully needs to grow the beard, so to speak, before being with anyone. Otherwise he would need to be constantly propped up because his self confidence is so low he'd be a doormat. Not healthy.

It bothers me that they pair Janine with him because Janine is the strongest female character in the series. Dana doesn't even compare.

Dana is on the NY orchestra which means she probably has a masters in music and probably fine art but isn't hurting because of loans since she can afford a nice penthouse apartment and later is able to hire a nanny for her son while she works a nice job in a museum before returning to the orchestra. My guess is that she comes from a well-to-do family and her college was paid for, so her salary at the orchestra (which I don't think is that much iirc what my music major friends told me) goes towards her living expenses only.

Janine, on the other hand, doesn't dress very stylishly (I won't even grace GBII with that moniker, even in the early 90s I thought it just looked dumb), and works a job that has little gratitude and less pay. She's the one I can relate to. She's the strong female role. Dana is a damsel in distress, Janine is a damsel that kicks your ass without chipping her nail polish.

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: April 13th, 2012, 6:26 pm 
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Fritz wrote:
And for all of Ramis's blather on the commentary track about how Egon and Janine were "failed" and "mawkish"? Is there anyone besides him who thinks that GB2's awkward and sleazy burlesque show was better?

I wasn't going to mention anything else about GB2, but as you brought it up... :D

Figure this; in GB1 Dana has a boyfriend who is portrayed as something like a doofus (nasal sprays and all) and not worthy of her, so Venkman comes along, she dumps him and dates Venkman, then in GB2, she's comes back with doofus's child, and yet despite that at the end of the film she still manages to go back with Venkman (with whom it is implied she had a significant history during the time period between the two films).

Compare that to the portrayal of Egon and Janine's relationship - in GB1, the couple are clearly interested in each other, so you'd think it was the beginning of a beautiful relationship. In GB2 Janine starts to date her own doofus in the form of Louis Tully. When watching the film for the first time, you'd think that any moment now, Egon will come along and intervene like Peter did in GB1. After all, there are huge similarities between the first and second films, and it would be a great way to bookend the two films in a creative and thematic sense. There are no kids involved to muddy the situation; it seems an easy ride from his perspective. But nothing happens. It's almost like an unfinished part of the film. There is no resolution/culmination from the events of the first film. Simply put, the equivalent would be that Dana goes back with Andre Wallance and forgets all about Peter Venkman at the end of GB2. Of course, people wouldn't accept that kind of ending, but then why is it seen as okay when it involves Egon and Janine?

It just bothers me that they couldn't seem to find a way for Egon and Janine's relationship to flourish, while Peter and Dana's relationship, despite boyfriend/husband, a child and everything else as obstacles in their way, still manages to make it clear the message that Peter and Dana are the love of each other's lives. No-one suggests that Andre is the true love interest of Dana's, even though she had a child with him, and yet Louis is supposed to be a genuine love interest of Janine's. And Egon, who was hugging her and holding hands with her in the first film, is totally forgotten, even though they still seem to be working together in GB2. I think we've lost something here - an explanation, maybe? We've got a taste of Peter and Dana's history through the 'ball and chain' conversation, but where's the explanation of Egon and Janine's situation?

There's a lot of talk about how Janine acts all slutty with Louis in GB2, but let's not forget the kiss Egon receives from Dana. WTF was that about, anyway? Why the hell put that in there? He's all smiles afterwards, and later talks about wanting to perform gynaecological tests on her. You are left wondering at what point Egon forgot all about Janine, and instead decided to show a perverse interest in his best friend's (ex) girlfriend. Probably about the same time Janine lost her damned mind and started dating Louis. Most of this could be explained by the mood slime affecting them. However, without any official explanation, we are left with two characters who are acting way out of character, and no reasonable purpose behind any of it.

Regardless what Ramis says, if I was Dan Aykroyd, I'd have been pushing for something between E/J, if only as a continuation of the narrative from GB1.

Fritz wrote:
Though even then, notice it's clearly assumed that if Dana is around, she's Venkman's love interest. There's nobody going "Dana should be around, but she should be shagging Louis Tully" crap.

Exactly. But even when Dana isn't around, like in the cartoons or the IDW comics, people will still refer to her as the love of his life. In the cartoons the fact that he doesn't seem to want to settle down with anyone else only serves to emphasise that it's nothing serious, and that none of the relationships come anywhere close to what he had with Dana. It's still fairly obvious he hasn't gotten over her and that she's his true love. In the IDW comics, without wanting to spoil anything, she's clearly a huge influence on him still.

As you said, the majority of fandom accepts and even encourages Egon/Janine as a couple, but when it comes to the official side of things, it is STILL not a foregone conclusion that they should be together, despite all the wealth of evidence that indicates that they should be.

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: April 14th, 2012, 9:46 am 
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Lol...Over on the IDW board, I posted about being worried I was a one-trick pony, and here I am writing another long post about this...

I think ultimately the doubt can be laid at the feet of Ramis's own stated disdain. As one of the co-creators and co-owners of the franchise, and the guy who'd actually play Egon if any more live-action movies were made (short some execrable "reboot") that gives him a lot of say in the matter. It's obvious that all the way back to DiC and Now Comics through to 88MPH and IDW, they're aware of what fandom wants, but are afraid of Ramis's disapproval.

But I daresay you get at a major part of why we hate the "developments" of GB2 so much: not only do we disagree with the idea actually presented, they pretty much had to write the characters involved quite differently from the way they were portrayed in GB1 to get there. Furthermore, there's no explanation given, or even assumed to be needed.

Quote:
There's a lot of talk about how Janine acts all slutty with Louis in GB2, but let's not forget the kiss Egon receives from Dana. WTF was that about, anyway? Why the hell put that in there? He's all smiles afterwards, and later talks about wanting to perform gynaecological tests on her. You are left wondering at what point Egon forgot all about Janine, and instead decided to show a perverse interest in his best friend's (ex) girlfriend.


<sarcasm> Well, clearly Dana is the sex goddess that every man in the GB universe wants, while that secretary whatzerface is just a nobody only desired by losers like Louis. Why should anybody care about her anyway? </sarcasm>

It's hard to say "out of character" with the original writers and actors involved, but as a shorthand for "Completely different from the portrayals in the first movie without a single word of explanation why" I can agree with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: April 16th, 2012, 12:49 am 
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Fritz wrote:
Lol...Over on the IDW board, I posted about being worried I was a one-trick pony, and here I am writing another long post about this...

I think ultimately the doubt can be laid at the feet of Ramis's own stated disdain. As one of the co-creators and co-owners of the franchise, and the guy who'd actually play Egon if any more live-action movies were made (short some execrable "reboot") that gives him a lot of say in the matter. It's obvious that all the way back to DiC and Now Comics through to 88MPH and IDW, they're aware of what fandom wants, but are afraid of Ramis's disapproval.

But I daresay you get at a major part of why we hate the "developments" of GB2 so much: not only do we disagree with the idea actually presented, they pretty much had to write the characters involved quite differently from the way they were portrayed in GB1 to get there. Furthermore, there's no explanation given, or even assumed to be needed.

did't some one say they thought his at time wife had somethng to do with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: April 16th, 2012, 4:40 am 
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jason knetge wrote:
did't some one say they thought his at time wife had somethng to do with it.
Yeah, but I'm not buying that excuse. If Ramis was worried about his wife's reaction, then why have a kiss between Egon and Dana? No matter how chaste the kiss was, it was still more than Egon and Janine ever got in the first film, which he filmed when he was divorced/separated. The GB2 script suggested they shake hands so at some point during the filming, while he was married, Ramis approved a kiss. Not sure why Dana would kiss Egon, anyway. It's not as if they were ever very close.

Also, if they wanted to, there was an easy way to resolve the E/J situation without any of the principal actors sharing a scene together. At the end of the film, Janine turns up with Louis. He tries to save the guys or does something which spectacularly fails, the guys come striding out of the museum (reminiscent of the first film), Janine acts like thanks, but see ya Louis!, reaches in her bag, sprays her perfume and heads off in Egon's direction. Would have taken just a couple of seconds, neither Ramis or Potts would have had to share any screentime, it would have tied up the E/J loose end and more importantly, would have given the hint that Janine is worth more than Louis. I'm sure there are other ways they could have done it without compromising the characters or requiring that the actors share a scene together, but they chose not to.

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: May 19th, 2012, 2:54 pm 
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Hi. Apologies for reanimating a seemingly dead thread, but this looked to be the most appropriate place for me to introduce myself. My name's Anna, and I've been a Ghostbusters fan for most of my life. I wish I found this forum years ago, but it was only recently that I thought of looking for a community of GB fans that I can relate to.

And yes, I am definitely an E/J shipper. The idea of them not ending together just blows my mind and is totally unacceptable. The appearance of the Roger character in the on-going comics almost drove me nuts. With all the character development that has gone on in the first movie, the cartoons and the earlier comics, it's just not logical for Egon or Janine to be paired with someone else. Egon and Janine belong together.

Anyhow, I'm happy I found this board, and I hope I can participate more.


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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: May 19th, 2012, 4:11 pm 
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Nah, not that dead a thread. And a sticky, so it's supposed to be prominant.

I was a little concerned about Roger when I read #1, but right now I'm not that worried. Check out the Ghostbusters #8 thread for more about that.

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