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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: June 19th, 2008, 9:29 am 
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Arafel wrote:
JECrazy wrote:
That's actually my video!


Loved your video, and so did a number of my 80's vintage friends. :D

There seems to be a good amount of discussion concerning the E/J moments in RGB, but I also find the dynamic in EGB as interesting, if not more in some ways (the love lost-and-found theme is definitely fun to work with.) Consider: poor ol' Egon has been living alone for however many years with a ghost for company, and when the business revives, he's brilliant with the gadgets but has a terrible time running the place. I'd argue that the cute part of EGB is Egon coming to a realization that like it or not, he needs Janine around... professionally, and personally too.

The two of them are so married in "Fallout" - it's adorkable.


There's a couple of stories I look forward to your reaction to. "Nodus" sees Egon in the depths of his RGB/EGB interim depression (where he also gets a rather large, unpleasant emotional bombshell dropped on him, too). "Clinically Insane" shows Janine just before she pops back into his life in "Darkness At Noon". "Dreams Reborn" adds to "Back In The Saddle" and moves into the post-EGB status quo.

I think rewatching EGB in the right order has helped it gel for me better, actually. I had previously seen "The Crawler" much later in the rerun rotation; it makes more sense as an early episode, creating more of the impression that Egon was still "feeling out" where the two of them stood, and was still lingeringly reluctant to express anything in front of the younger crowd. (It makes even more sense with GBOT fanon concepts like "As Dreams Fade" thrown in; one of the main points of that story was to reconcile RGB's "Janine You've Changed" with EGB's beginning in the same old "Willtheywon'tthey" status quo)

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: June 19th, 2008, 1:26 pm 
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I did read "Clinically Insane" - great minds must think alike, because I had a similar concept to yours. :) I'll have to check out your other interim stories later.

There's one scene in "The Sphinx" that stands out to me, when Egon's asking Janine whether he should dye his hair. Guys, in my experience, do not ask these kinds of things unless they are really comfortable with the person in question. He's quite grumpy about getting old (something we can all identify with) but once she validates his condition, he cheers up again.

Fritz wrote:
it makes more sense as an early episode, creating more of the impression that Egon was still "feeling out" where the two of them stood, and was still lingeringly reluctant to express anything in front of the younger crowd.


It also establishes that Egon has seen "Army of Darkness" at least once. I almost fell down when I heard that.


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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: August 23rd, 2008, 9:16 pm 
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Ok so I've had an idea for a while that I would like to share. I have always thought that it would be fun to make a soundtrack for Fritz's stories. I know we've tried to put songs with the characters before but I want to find songs that describe specific stories, and eps commonly referenced.

I'm sure Fritz will have plenty of ideas. ;)

And so I thought I'd start things off here. I also put a link to the youtube video, so you could hear the song.

Clinicly Insane- God Bless the Broken Roadhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6zrE2149v8

Nodus-Tonight I wanna Cryhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8PGmYymhwI

This goes with Janine Melnitz, Ghostbuster: You Save Mehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP1yOHLc4Fw

This goes with many references to Egon's parents- Stupid Boyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp8S0aDCleY





ghostdiva

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: September 5th, 2008, 2:51 am 
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I love this idea! Especially since this board has been D-E-A-D lately...

I've recently discovered this song, and I'm obsessed with it, but that's not the only reason why I think it would totally suit NODUS ...

"Slow Dancing in a Burning Room" by John Mayer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDYfNPaQtto

"Living on a Prayer" (mostly just the chorus though)...
by Bon Jovi for BACK IN THE SADDLE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXsmGSnq3lE


"Mad World" by Gary Jules for FUTURESHOCKS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfR238kimYU

"Hello" by Lionel Richie for ILLOGICAL REACTION

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIz1qFaITdY
(I can just hear it playing in that bar LOL!) and

"She's Out of My Life" by Michael Jackson is PERFECT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wHnwUOtNdg

I know this is not a Fritz fanfic but UNPRETTY by TLC sounds like it was MADE FOR "Janine, You've Changed" (Janine's POV)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKjj4yul9N8

BUSTED -- "Blood Brothers" by Bruce Springsteen...perfect

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDTTFo9D4CQ


Last edited by rgbforever on September 5th, 2008, 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: September 5th, 2008, 3:14 pm 
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Wow those are nice videos. Thanks for sharing!

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: September 8th, 2008, 6:29 pm 
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Quote:
I know this is not a Fritz fanfic but UNPRETTY by TLC sounds like it was MADE FOR "Janine, You've Changed" (Janine's POV)



Yeah, I have thought about that one for Janine, You've changed too. What about this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u55fpsbzAfk Everybody's Fool-Evanescence
Like they stole it from her diary. I can definately see how she would think this about her Fairy Godmother after the fact.

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: September 22nd, 2008, 7:31 pm 
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OK I have to say something.

I need new Egon and Janine stuff!

I am craving new stuff like a smoker craves a cigarette, sometimes re-reading stuff just doesn't do it anymore, like when the chewing gum stops working., ya' know what I mean?

Please help a starving soul here.

I am serious people! :o

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Winston: "Not welcome, there's a first. We should all get nametags that say, 'Hello, I'm not welcome'. Or maybe Tshirts or mugs or something."
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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: September 22nd, 2008, 9:12 pm 
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I'm hoping that "Eye of Aretpo" part 2 will at least partially help that craving.

Now all I gotta do is get the sprocking thing finished... :x

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: September 23rd, 2008, 12:29 am 
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ghostdiva wrote:
I need new Egon and Janine stuff!
:o


I KNOOOOOOOW!!!

The whole Egon/Janine franchise has definately hit a wall...there's no new NOTHING!!

That is why I thought we should all post links in the "Best E/J fanfics" post in case any of us missed one but it hasn't really gotten off the ground :oops:

I'm too shy to write fanfics (don't know why, since my stories during my school years were raved over by teachers and brought to conferences, etc.)...the only good news is that we just got a MAC and my husband said that IMovie is really easy to use so I'm looking forward to familiarizing myself with it and hopefully making another fan vid in the near future 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: September 23rd, 2008, 6:52 pm 
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Just work fast people I'm goin' into withdrawls over here!!!!!


E/J old married couple cuteness and youtube videos would definately hit the spot, drools.

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Peter: "Huh. Guess we're not welcome."
Winston: "Not welcome, there's a first. We should all get nametags that say, 'Hello, I'm not welcome'. Or maybe Tshirts or mugs or something."
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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: November 8th, 2008, 12:24 pm 
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I wasn't sure where to put this post, as it concerns the films more than the animations, but considering the subject matter at hand, I thought it would be best placed here. 

I was reading a conversation on GBfans about the 2nd movie, and these two responses interested me:

Quote:
I think in the commentary he said it was kinda mawkish which I didn't know what it meant until I looked it up. Before I thought he was saying it was "mock-ish".

mawkish \MOCK-ish\, adjective:
1. Sickly or excessively sentimental.
2. Insipid in taste; nauseous; disgusting.

It's one of those things that played out for the most part very well in the cartoon. The second Egon and Janine ever would have gotten together, it would have ruined everything that made Egon, Egon. The quirkiness, socially inept etc. The fact that he never knew how to respond etc was funny. There was really nowhere else for it to go in the movies I think. 


Quote:
Having listened to the GB1 commentary (and very much enjoyed it), I can to a degree understand where Ramis himself might be coming from. After all, he did co-write and star in it, and he's regarding the character from the POV of what we seen in the two movies. And Ramis does certainly seem to amusingly revel in recalling some of Egon's more oddball tendacies, (such as his near-cynical smile when talking about Gozer in the jail cell). Certainly, if you're a fan and look at the wider franchise such as the cartoon spin-offs and maybe the comic books, that the whole Egon\Janine dynamic is recognised as an essential trait to both character. But Ramis, be it right or wrongly, is looking at it through the two films from the POV of the benefits to the comedy of his character and preformance, with the character drama second. As such, there's little need to villify him for his overall stance. Even if the Janine\Louis hook-up does nothing for you... which it doesn't for me.


http://www.gbfans.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3919&start=120&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

The comments interest me for two reasons; firstly, we really don't know why Ramis hates the pairing as much as he does, when it is arguably the most popular Ghostbusters pairing there is, and secondly, going by the reasons offered above, it makes even less sense to me for Ramis to have ditched the pairing in GB2.

Now, I'm no scriptwriter, but surely anyone can see the comic potential in pairing up Egon and Janine. In fact, I think there is just so much you can do with them that I just can't imagine why any scriptwriter would prefer not to take that relationship pairing up when it is offered.

Let's take the first point; 'getting Egon and Janine together would have ruined everything that made Egon, Egon'. I don't think getting Egon together with Janine would stop his social awkwardness, or quirkiness, or inability to know how to respond to her. I don't see how Egon dating Janine will somehow transform him from his socially-awkward persona into a suave, sophisticated guy with all the moves. In fact, with the way Janine is (in my opinion just as quirky and with plenty of oddities of her own), I'd have thought that it would have made him even more socially awkward. Egon certainly wouldn't suddenly act like Venkman if he were dating someone like Janine. He'd still be the same old Egon, and still be as uncertain with her as he always was. Egon and Janine's first discussion in GB1 was odd, awkward, quirky, and just the way they are. No doubt the pressures of a first date would amplify that, and lead to some interesting conversation and potentially funny moments. I don't see how there was nowhere for Egon/Janine to go in the movies. They could have had a bit of awkward flirting going on; a continuation of the flirting from the first film. They could have had a first date. There are many ways they could have integrated Egon and Janine as a couple into the second movie, and many things they could have done with them that would not only have been comical, in tune with the film, but indeed would have emphasised Egon's social awkwardness. While I'm on the subject, how did GB2 emphasise Egon's social awkwardness and quirkiness? It seemed to me that Egon was less socially awkward in the second film than he was in the first.

As for the second point; 'the benefits of the comedy of Egon's character and performance, with the character drama second'. Going back to the first film, a lot of the comedy concerning Egon came in scenes between him and Janine. Hell, even the deleted E/J scene was pretty funny, which makes it even less sense that Ramis, as a comedy character actor, decided to ditch the romance. After all, there are many E/J scenes in RGB, the comics and EGB which have been quite comedic. As for the drama; if Janine remained largely in the background as she did in GB2, then there didn't need to be any drama between them. In fact, all Janine could have been there for would have been a little bit of comic relief with her various interactions with Egon, and their blossoming new relationship would have made a great contrast to Dana and Venkman's more experienced and jaded dating situation. It would certainly have been more entertaining than what we ended up with. Of course I'm biased, but the Janine/Louis scenes didn't seem particularly funny, or even touching (as Janine and Egon's relationship was at times in GB1); in fact it was kind of sad, and at times cringeworthy (and not in a funny way). I feel that an Egon/Janine pairing would have helped to emphasise both their oddball tendencies (it's one thing I love about them; the fact that both are sort of odd and quirky in their own unique way, and quite suited to each other in that respect), and helped to create some great comic moments for a second film. 

So, with all of this potential (not to mention the fact that it would have made more sense in a sequel to follow on from their budding romance from the first film), why did Ramis decide to drop it? From a scriptwriter's perspective, I'd have thought there would be a lot more to do with Egon and Janine as a pairing than there would be with either Janine and Louis (a pairing which seemed plucked from nowhere and jammed into the film awkwardly just to make more use of one character), or no pairing involved with either character. The fact that the writers and teams behind RGB, the various comics and even EGB decided it was a relationship worth exploring (not to mention the numerous fan authors/artists who have also taken up the mantle) just goes to show how much of a perplexity Ramis's decision seems to be, from an artistic and creative standpoint. 

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: November 9th, 2008, 8:49 am 
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Some very very good points there. I remember when Ogre and I watched GB2 a couple of years ago, and Ogre turned to me during the scene where Louis asks Janine out, and says "Right. And that wasn't mawkish?"

And as some fans of the worlds spun by George Lucas and JK Rowling would no doubt attest, sometimes the creator doesn't know best.

I think EGBs big failing was in not starting with the two married already. I hate to toot my own horn here, but you want comic potential? Howabout a couple of kids with Egon's brains and Janine's willfullness? It isn't funny when John and Eden try to make a sport coat explode (and that wasn't even my gag!)?

Even without that step, they did throw in a couple of funny bits where, basically, they just about did act like an old married couple. Janine reminding Egon to do "normal" things like eat. Janine having a fire extinguisher ready for the inevitable fire one of his experiments starts.

If there's one great hope I have, it's the fact that the new video game is so chock full of fan pandering (totally gratuitous appearances by the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man and Vigo!!!) that maybe, just maybe, they've managed to convince Ramis to fix his mistakes. They've apparently done enough homework to know where fan sentiment is on this, and if you add in Rick Moranis passing on the project, we've got a chance.

Even if we don't...well, hell, that's what fan fiction is for.

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: November 9th, 2008, 2:23 pm 
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Fritz wrote:
And as some fans of the worlds spun by George Lucas and JK Rowling would no doubt attest, sometimes the creator doesn't know best.


That's true enough. But in the worlds of Rowling and Lucas, there isn't the situation where every other official follow-on has adopted whatever the creator has decided specifically against doing. In our fandom, RGB had been going for years before GB2 came along, so surely he could have seen how an E/J pairing could have gone, had he decided to use it. Unless of course he didn't watch the successful children's cartoon series based upon his own creation and had no influence over the characterisation of them in the cartoon series (even though Murray had an influence about how his character looked and sounded). You'd have thought that if Ramis felt that strongly about E/J as a couple, he would have pulled a Murray and told the team behind RGB not to go there.

Almost everyone else concerned with Ghostbusters (both fan-made and official) have carried on with the pairing in one way or another, so it just makes me wonder why the heck Ramis detested it that much. It seems to me that it was probably a personal choice rather than a creative one, and maybe it was because as he was playing one of the characters involved that he felt uneasy about it; although it didn't stop him from scripting an affectionate peck on the cheek between him and Sigourney Weaver, an act which seemed out of character for both Dana (who doesn't seem the type of person to be kissing someone like Egon on the cheek as a thank-you, especially if they aren't very close friends and haven't seen each other for years) and Egon, whose reaction afterward suggests it was something of a dream come true for him. Another 'mawkish' moment, I think.

Egon and Janine are obviously a successful pairing and as you've already demonstrated, their kids would be great comedy vehicles; much better than the Junior Ghostbusters ever were. Just because you've got a couple in a cartoon/movie it doesn't mean it has to be all about drama and break-ups, so for a comedy character actor/writer like Ramis to want to be rid of such a great wealth of material seems quite an odd decision.

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: November 9th, 2008, 3:16 pm 
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Like I siad somewhere on this thread before, Harold had just gotten married right before GB2 and I think a lot of his decisions probably had to do with his new wife not wanting him to have a relationship with some other woman on camera. She would have wanted to him to be connected to her, like Brad and angelina, instead of his character connected to another character, like E/J. You'll notice that he never again played a pairing in anything else he was in.

It really is the most logical explanation and I sleep well at night with the idea. Keeping the peace at home would have been a priority for him, not keeping his fans happy.

Keep solace in the fact that E/J has outlived all of his marriges.

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 Post subject: Re: Egon And Janine
PostPosted: November 9th, 2008, 4:43 pm 
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ghostdiva wrote:
Like I siad somewhere on this thread before, Harold had just gotten married right before GB2 and I think a lot of his decisions probably had to do with his new wife not wanting him to have a relationship with some other woman on camera. She would have wanted to him to be connected to her, like Brad and angelina, instead of his character connected to another character, like E/J. You'll notice that he never again played a pairing in anything else he was in.

It really is the most logical explanation and I sleep well at night with the idea. Keeping the peace at home would have been a priority for him, not keeping his fans happy.


If that's the case, then why the unnecessary Dana/Egon peck on the cheek that I've highlighted in GB2 and Egon's rather gleeful reaction afterward? Apart from a couple of hugs, there were no physical interactions (not even a peck on the cheek) between Egon and Janine in the first film. Sure, I can understand him being married and wanting to knock off the whole relationship thing, but then he goes and totally contradicts that by getting a kiss off of the leading lady, which is more than he got in any scene during the first film when he was unmarried. The marriage thing doesn't quite ring true to me, somehow. If I were the wife of an actor, I'd be more pissed about the cheek kissing thing and his reaction to that than any awkward verbal flirting or pretend dinner date between two characters in a movie. Surely if he could get away with a kiss on the cheek from Sigourney Weaver, then he could get away with a few E/J scenes in GB2.

His character, whether he or his wife liked it or not, was already connected to Janine. Egon was connected to Janine in the cartoon series, which came before GB2 and was viewed by many people who would end up watching the second film. Most people who watched the second film and were familiar with the cartoons probably were expecting E/J rather than anything else, so in many people's minds Egon and Janine were already connected by that time.

The Egon and Janine relationship he said he found 'mawkish'. It wasn't a sentiment he suddenly felt when he began filming GB2 (or once he was married), it came from filming the first film. The GB1 commentary made mention of the fact that he'd removed some E/J scenes that they'd filmed at that time because he found it 'mawkish' way back then (I'm assuming the 'lucky coin' scene was a direct victim of that sentiment). Evidently he hadn't changed his mind by the time of filming GB2, unfortunately.

ghostdiva wrote:
Keep solace in the fact that E/J has outlived all of his marriges.


Actually, I think he's still married; although I do think E/J might end up outliving everyone. :)

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