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TheRazorsEdge
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PostPosted: May 17th, 2010, 5:43 pm |
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devilmanozzy wrote: The fan base is starting to sound more like trekies and star wars fans. I hope we havn't gotten that overblown with this. What happened to being grateful they wasted time on making a video game on a dead old franchise?! Yeah, we hit Star Wars Nerd level a long time ago. I hold AJ and the userbase his board attracts and encourages entirely responsible. It was never like this until GBFans became the center of the community.
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devilmanozzy
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PostPosted: May 19th, 2010, 2:04 pm |
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TheRazorsEdge wrote: devilmanozzy wrote: The fan base is starting to sound more like trekies and star wars fans. I hope we havn't gotten that overblown with this. What happened to being grateful they wasted time on making a video game on a dead old franchise?! Yeah, we hit Star Wars Nerd level a long time ago. I hold AJ and the userbase his board attracts and encourages entirely responsible. It was never like this until GBFans became the center of the community. *Sigh* I couldn't agree more. GBFans is a cancer to the Ghostbusters fan circles. I got to the point I ignore gbfans as a fan site, and more like a archive. I don't read much there anymore, and as soon as I have copies of Now Comics RGB comics, I'll totally avoid the site. I wont go so far as to be bitter and start a campaign against them through. There are a good many that are tired of the clique I'm aware of as some of the editors at Ghostbusters Wiki are not currently posting at GBFans, tho I don't mind if they post there or anywhere for that matter. Let the people find out the truth for themselves. We know the truth of GBFans here it appears.
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OriginalGhost
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PostPosted: July 13th, 2010, 6:46 am |
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Uh, lets see. That it'll actually get made. ![Confused :?](./images/smilies/icon_e_confused.gif) What people should have noticed by now, especially folks who consider themselves able to discern a good movie, is: You don't wait too many years to do a sequel. GB2 was released aproximately 5 years after the first one. Thats like the limit. You want 2-4 years tops. Any more than that and you tread into detachment from the last film (which happened with GB2), stringed together "updates" for the hiatus, good stuff thrown away that shou'dve been kept, and terrible stuff thrown in to asauge a wider demographic aka The American Greed Factor aka 'for the bucks.' I've watched too many movies that should've been one movie and ended. Only to have a sequel show up down the line from practically nowhere. When it gets done for the bucks a couple years later or the studios think its a good idea then thats fine. I don't care about that. Thats how it works in Hollyweird. But when you sit around and 10 years go by and a second part gets announced from nowhere I"m like WTF? Why are the studios making one after so long?? I won't name any specific movies but there are quite a few where the follow ups are released way too late, to where its a 'whats the point' scenario. I love the first 2 Ghostbusters films and I have absolutely no interest in GB3. So. Whats the point. I'd much rather see a film with some orginality coming from the minds of some young comics than a detrimental unneccesary followup to one of the greatest films ever. GB2 was acceptable.
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jason knetge
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PostPosted: July 13th, 2010, 2:17 pm |
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what a bout star wars ...or is that a point in hand.
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Fritz
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PostPosted: July 13th, 2010, 4:27 pm |
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OriginalGhost, welcome to the Ectozone. A very insightful first post, too. jason knetge wrote: what a bout star wars ...or is that a point in hand. Now Jason, you've been around long enough to know that the Star Wars prequels are, in many fans minds, the poster child for "Shitting all over what came before." ![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif) (I don't share in that view myself, but that's the general fan concensus) (Not to say that it doesn't have it's uses, though. Somebody on GBFans responded to one of my criticisms of the Janine/Louis trainwreck in GB2 by saying "Shut up! It's canon!" to which I retorted "So is Jar-Jar Binks" ![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif) But that's way off topic.)
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devilmanozzy
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PostPosted: July 14th, 2010, 6:40 pm |
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Fritz wrote: (Not to say that it doesn't have it's uses, though. Somebody on GBFans responded to one of my criticisms of the Janine/Louis trainwreck in GB2 by saying "Shut up! It's canon!" to which I retorted "So is Jar-Jar Binks" ![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif) But that's way off topic.) No that is painfully on topic, as many are wanting this one way and expect a perfect canon installment. It wont be. Harold for the record was the one behind Janine being with Louis in the second movie. Anyways, if you want a third movie at all, your going to have to let the boys do as they want, and support it. If not, then go buy another copy of the Blu-ray and cry longer. Need any cheese with that whine?!
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Fritz
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PostPosted: July 14th, 2010, 7:46 pm |
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Let's face it, the topic of GB3 is one that divides the community.
One part of the community loves the earlier movies, but doesn't want a third one because they're afraid it will suck, and be treated with the scorn the Star Wars Prequels get. Maybe they were disappointed with the second (and, after all, Janine/Louis and Jar Jar were not Executive Meddling causing a bad thing--they were bad things straight from the creators). Maybe they're cynical about Hollywood's ability to put out a good movie. The reasons are various, but the end result is the same.
The other part of the community loves the earlier movies, and wants another one period end of statement. They basically think a third movie, even if it doesn't live up to the ones that came before, will nevertheless be a good thing because of the attention it brings to the property.
And the schism probably won't end even after the movie comes out, unless it completely, absolutely, blows our socks off. I think to do that it would have to at least be as good as the first one.
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devilmanozzy
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PostPosted: July 14th, 2010, 9:58 pm |
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Fritz wrote: And the schism probably won't end even after the movie comes out, unless it completely, absolutely, blows our socks off. I think to do that it would have to at least be as good as the first one. Sigh, I sadly have to agree. Damn it, I hate it when you say that! ![Confused :?](./images/smilies/icon_e_confused.gif)
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rgbforever
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PostPosted: July 15th, 2010, 11:22 pm |
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OriginalGhost -- I couldn't agree more with every word in your commet. Well said.
It's been too long -- let it go already. True fans are continuing on in enjoying the RGB DVD, fanfiction, video games and being nostalgic...that is part of the fun of Ghostbusters. As soon as they put their new-fangled spin on it I am afraid the nostalgia, the memories, the characters, will be tainted once we take The Ghostbusters our of the 80's. Let sleeping dogs lie I say...and only because it seems that time does no favour to our beloved 4 and redhead...the later something comes out the shittier it seems to be (GB2, Extreme, Video Game, etc.)
All of my fears have already been voiced re: Janine & Louis & No Egon/characterization/over-abundance of futuristic gear/crappy recasting or cameos, etc. I'm watching out for GB3 trailers and promos the way I watch scary movies...peeking between my fingers, ready to duck whenever something I don't like rears it's head...
And so we wait.
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Rover
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PostPosted: December 3rd, 2010, 4:34 am |
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I don't think it needs to happen, in the first place. In a realistic world, it is bound to become a disappointment on several levels, and it would break the continuity established here (and the said continuity is no mean feat, considering the amount of variations and discrepancies between different blocks of the franchise - the movies, RGB, EGB, several lines of comics...) So I'm here with Ectozone and its continuity and I don't need anyone messing with this, thank you very much.
To me, it's like a music artist that decides to release a "sequel" to one of his/her popular albums after a decade or two to cash in on the title. I loved Queensrÿche's Operation Mindcrime - it was cool beyond belief. 18 years later, Operation Mindrime II, per pretty much everyone's opinion, sucked beyond belief. (I wonder what Alice Cooper's Welcome to My Nightmare II is going to be like, tho)
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ghostdiva
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PostPosted: December 19th, 2010, 10:21 pm |
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I have a new fear, one that never would have crossed my mind before...Anna Faris!? Seriously everytime I see a interview mention her I inadvertently clench my teeth, byt his point I think that I've cracked my jaw. Something I've thought about and would like to see... Ryan Reynolds as Oscar. ![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
_________________ Peter: "Huh. Guess we're not welcome." Winston: "Not welcome, there's a first. We should all get nametags that say, 'Hello, I'm not welcome'. Or maybe Tshirts or mugs or something." --Ghostbusters the video game
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Fritz
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PostPosted: January 19th, 2011, 7:45 pm |
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I ended up never posting this at GBFans. I keep going back and forth as to whether all my complaints are too nerdy and nitpicky, then the next day I'm going "Well, this is what I really fear about the movie", and get indecisive and never post it.
But I keep going back and revising the list as new information rumors come down the pike.
This is the latest draft: ----------------------
My great fears about GB3?
* The script will be terrible, and stupid, and Bill Murray will agree to do it anyway because he's being pressured by the other stake holders. Or the script will be good enough for him, but then when he actually gets in there it will be rewritten into something that he didn't agree to. Either one of those things will lead to...
* Bill Murray will half-ass it again. If he's not gonna be in it, and not gonna give it his all, just don't make it. "Half assing it" would include having him in it as a ghost, where he can just phone in all his parts from a green screen.
Is it certainly possible to make a good Ghostbuster story without Venkman? Hell yes. But are you going to be as successful selling a movie sequel without the previous movies' biggest draw? Hell no. Perhaps more importantly, Murray passing on actually being in the movie is a canary in a coal mine warning of a lousy script. All the buzz will be "Bill Murray passed on being in this movie--it probably blows" (even if, by some miracle, it doesn't).
* They stick too close to The Formula
--New menace menaces Venkman's Love Interest. We also meet her Creepy Stalker
--Venkman, Ray, and Egon go on a bust that changes their fortunes for the better
--A montage with the theme playing
--The Big Bad recruits the Creepy Stalker of Venkman's love interest to be his follower.
--There's a climactic showdown where something big walks down the street
No. Just no. After twenty two plus years (which it will be when the movie is released even if they started filming it tomorrow), you can do something different. The montage you can maybe leave in, but otherwise, no.
* More Gozer retreads. One of the things GB2, for all of it's flaws, did right is have an enemy that didn't have a blessed thing to do with Gozer. It was a directive from J. Micheal Stracynski to the writers of The Real Ghostbusters to "forget about Gozer. He's history". But in recent years, suddenly everything has to somehow go back to Gozer: their enemies are Gozer's father, or his concubine, or his insane worshippers.
With all the mythology that the property can, and has, drawn upon even before making stuff up (Gozer, after all, does not appear in any real summations of Sumerian mythology) the constant dipping into this till feels uncreative and overdone. Quit now before you end up like the Marvel UK comics and suddenly Gozer has a lumberjack cousin named Horg. (Yeah, I wish I was kidding about that...)
<I now have a copy of a picture of Horg. If I post this on GBFans, I have to make sure to upload it first so I can link it lol>
* Please, dear Gods, no "They're out of business at the beginning" plot again. We've sat throught that one twice already. The second movie did it. Extreme Ghostbusters did it. No. Just no.
* It’ll all be about Venkman and his love life again. GB1: Venkman’s love interest Dana Barrett is being stalked by Gozer. GB2: Venkman’s love interest Dana Barrett and her son are being stalked by Vigo the Carpathian. GBVG: Venkman’s love interest Ilyssa Selwyn is being stalked by Ivo Shandor and his Gozer cult. Venkman is the only one apparently allowed to have a social life? Ray and Winston have none in the movies at all, and Egon was cockblocked by his own creator in the name of “I need to make up reasons to justify having my old Second City buddy in the sequel”
I’m not opposed to a romantic subplot. But since the movie will probably involve new characters, perhaps they should be at the center of it.
* Dana Barrett will be forgotten about. I realize that’s a bit contradictory with the last point, but Sigourney Weaver doesn’t even need to be in it to take care of this. One of my gripes about the Video Game, and even the animation, is that Dana is basically ignored—even though Venkman’s interaction with her was so important in both movies.
There are some people who say “Venkman should be alone and on the prowl”. I disagree. It was one thing for Venkman to win and lose her once; it gave Venkman in GB2 a new character depth. He learned and grew from the experience. Venkman losing Dana again pretty much makes him a pathetic loser, and throws away the entire point of his character arc in the first two movies.
As far as the video game goes—things with Selwyn ended on a note that was ambiguous at best. More importantly, there will be over twenty years between the events of the game and GB3—more than enough time for Venkman to have fixed things with Dana, married her, and raised Oscar as his own. And like I said, you don’t even need Weaver to be there to establish any of that—this story shouldn’t be about her anyway, as I said above.
One line like "Oscar, if you get killed, you know your Mom will make me sleep on the couch for the next twenty years" would do the trick nicely. There’ll be plenty of room for one of the new characters to be a skirt chasing rake.
* The new characters will suck. They’ll be a bunch of talentless, “hot” hacks who can’t act their way out of paper bags, but they sell movie tickets to the droids in the audience. I won’t name any names, but whichever overrated douchebag you want to name I will probably agree with. As as Ghostdiva once put it on the Ectozone: "the new GBs will either be too generic and have no character, be too silly and unviewable as professionals, or be too serious and loose all the humor."
* Or, the new characters will be awesome, but the fans will hate them anyway because they’re not Venkman, and Ray, and Egon, and Winston. Unless they’re predominantly white men, there’ll be whining about “Political correctness”.
I get the feeling I've seen this one happen already.
* Winston will be sidelined again. One of the things that annoyed me most about GB2 was the way Winston appeared at the beginning, then disappeared for the first third of the movie. Treating him as though he's somehow less important than the others gets on my nerves bad.
I realize it's probably part of my cartoon bias, which had the perspective of "There are four Ghostbusters" instead of "There are three Ghostbusters and some other guy they hired". To top it off, Ernie Hudson has been an absolute treasure to the fans of the franchise: he's never been involved in writing derivative sequels, nor in acting like being involved in the franchise is a huge embarrassment and annoyance to him (one or the other being easily applicable to his three co-stars). Ernie's got the cleanest record of them all on that score.
I'm not as worried about this as some of the others, because of Murray's purported support of a strong role for Winston, but if I see lots of movie posters with Venkman, Ray, Egon, and no Winston, GB3 aquires a big black mark.
* Janine will be written like she was in GB2.
I speak for many fans of this character: the Janine we like so much was defined by GB1 and the early seasons of the cartoon: gutsy, abraisive, fearless, eccentric, a bit bookish (though a tad less so in the cartoon), able to hold her own in a verbal smackdown with Venkman, but tempered and humanized by her obvious soft spot for Egon. Her clumsy attempts to woo the clueless physicist were hilarious, touching, and humanized him greatly too. The subtle development of their arc led to an episode of the cartoon that actually won it an Emmy nomination.
Compared to that, the way she was written in GB2 was an act of character assassination. She didn't even get to argue with Venkman, and her eccentric bookishness and soft spot for Egon were replaced (ironically enough, in a movie derided for being "too kid friendly") with an overamped libido and sense of desperation taking her standards low enough to find a loser (compared to Egon Spengler, anyway) like Louis Tully worthy of a sleazy and embarrassing makeout session.
(And I'm not even going to discuss the personality lobotomy ABC "experts" insisted on in the cartoon, which was a direct cause of Mr. Stracynski quitting the show)
I think it speaks volumes about her portrayal in GB2 that fans and even other licensed, official writers ignore it--James Van Hise, writer of the Real Ghostbusters comics of the time, explicitly chalked up her flirtation with Louis as jealousy of all the time Egon was spending on Ghostbuster business. This issue was published while GB2 was still in theatres. JMS's Emmy winning episode "Janine, You've Changed" and Extreme Ghostbusters, both released after GB2, don't even mention Louis Tully. Even recent writers such as Nathan Johnson, Ilias Kyriazis, and Peter David have been dropping Egon/Janine hints.
Take your cues there. Good: Sarcastic, eccentric, sweet on Egon. Bad: bland, boring, horny for Louis. I'd rather they just left her out than continued the directions the character went in GB2.
(If it was up to me, they'd quietly reveal that she's been married to Egon for years, just by having the name plate on her desk read "Janine Spengler" and her telling a character about "The time the Twins built a volcano in my Mom's bathtub. Egon didn't know whether to be furious or proud". Nothing fancy, nothing excessive, just like with Venkman and Dana. Establish it and move on with the new plot. )
* Slimer will be "Evil" (if he's in the movie at all). Slimer was never evil--he was just hungry and mischievous. He should be in the movie, albeit only briefly, and just hanging around the firehouse eating stuff and annoying Venkman. I think it's one area the novel Ghostbusters: The Return played it well: he just shows up in a couple of scenes and gets comedically blown up in a microwave.
* Rick Moranis will decline to appear, and fans will bitch about it the way they bitch about Louis not being in the Video Game.
* Or Rick Moranis will be pressured into appearing in the movie. Let's be frank here: some fans overestimate Louis Tully's importance to the franchise. Let me remind you that during the cartoon's best days, they got along just fine without him. Even when he did become available to them, they didn't find a lot they could do with him. Extreme Ghostbusters, the IDW and Tokyopop comic series, all got along just fine without him. Even the Video Game, which has drawn universal acclaim from Ghostheads, didn't have him and, let's face it, didn't need him.
And honestly, to put him in the second movie, they had to graft a new role, that of lawyer, onto him. Even then, if he'd vanished from sight after the courtroom scene, we probably all would have been saying "That was a nice little nod to the first movie" but then, to give the character a reason to be there for the rest of the movie, they saddled him with some Slimer scenes that even they didn't think were worth putting in the final cut of the movie, and basically whored Janine out to him.
He doesn't have Janine or Dana's emotional connections to the four Ghostbusters. He doesn't make a very good Ghostbuster, lacking Winston's physical capacity, Venkman's unflappability, or Ray and Egon's vast knowledge of the supernatural. What's left?
That's not to say I'm unequivically opposed. If they can find a way to make it worth Moranis's time without trainwrecking a movie that already looks to be crowded with characters, and stay well away from the Janine/Louis epic fail or Louis-as-Ghostbuster epic fail, go for it.
Otherwise, let Rick Moranis enjoy his retirement.
* ECTO-1 .Please, no more unneccessary letters--I'd rather they just call it "ECTO-1" instead of "ECTO-1C" or whatever. It was one thing in GB2 when it (probably) wasn't supposed to be the same vehicle, but in the video game ("ECTO-1B") there was no reason for it.
* Oscar will be in it, which I have no objection to. They'll retcon his origin to be Venkman's biological son, which I do object to.
Just...no. Go back and watch GB2. This idea, which got floated around the rumor mill a couple months ago, is assinine. His biological father's name was Andre Wallance in the Richard Mueller adaptation of GB1, and it would be cool as hell to have them use that, just for us obscure trivia buffs. And us fan ficcers who've been using it for the last ten years. (Or at least not contradict it, ie by always referring to the character as "Oscar Venkman" because Venkman adopted him) But the important part is this: Andre Wallance is Oscar's sperm donor--Peter Venkman is Oscar's father; that idea works just fine.
Venkman could have raised Oscar since the age of eight months. Peter could very easily be Oscar's real father--the one who changed his daipers, cried as he went to his first day of kindergarten, taught him how to shave, and gave him "the Talk" without a single strand of DNA in common. I've seen this happen in Real Life--one of my younger brothers is raising a son he's not biologically related to. I don't object to Oscar being Venkman's son--I object to the needless retcon of Oscar's genetic background.
--- And before you flame me, please note that there are a lot of things I don't think will automatically ruin GB3. I'm not going to complain about writers other than Aykroyd and Ramis working on it--J. Micheal Straczynski, Richard Mueller, Micheal Reaves, James Van Hise, Andrew Dabb, and many others have written awesome Ghostbusters stories over the years (Indeed, I personally rank some of Mr. Stracynski's efforts as more enjoyable than GB2). I'm not opposed to new characters (just new characters created halfass and/or used badly just to sell tickets and toys). Go ahead and update the equipment; even use stuff from the Video Game, even though some of it makes less sense outside a video game context. I'd love some acknowledgement of the cartoons, but don't expect it and won't get pissed off if there isn't any. And I'm certainly not going to throw a fit if the director makes Bill Murray tuck in his pant legs--or if he doesn't.
Please, I want to be surprised and thrilled. But like many others, I fear for the project in today's movie climate, where so many otherwise promising properties have been abused and screwed over by bad decisions.
If you can't make a Ghostbusters 3 worthy of the name, just don't sprocking do it.
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Fritz
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PostPosted: March 21st, 2014, 4:01 pm |
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It's almost been a month since the passing of Harold Ramis, so maybe enough time's passed I can get this off my chest.
What's My Worst Fear About GB3?
At this point, "That it will actually be made" is squarely at the top of the list.
Bill Murray doesn't want to do it.
Harold Ramis, obviously, can't do it now.
Ernie Hudson is, at least according to rumor, questionable--he has at least allegedly claimed that with Ramis gone there's just no point.
Rumor, again, that Ivan Reitman would not direct.
Put all that together, and you basically have Sony pumping out a product just for the sake of selling it. You either have Akyroyd and a bunch of uninspired characters put together by a committee (which seldom works) or, worse, a fucking reboot (which also seldom works, almost always being a soulless monstrosity completely missing the spirit of the original, whether it fails--ask RoboCop 2014--or still succeeds despite blowing--ask Star Trek XI and XII)
The chances of GB3 sucking with teeth are now virtually 1:1. In a just world, they'd just forget it and leave it alone.
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