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 Post subject: Re: Annie Potts in GBII
PostPosted: April 12th, 2008, 8:19 pm 
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Fritz wrote:
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To play devil's advocate for half a moment, I don't think Ramis probably realized it would be such a big deal with the fans either. Leaving devil's advocate mode, the part about him that pisses me off is him not basically saying "We tried something different with this, it didn't work, and I'm sorry to all the fans that hated it with a passion." Instead he makes those snotty comments about Egon and Janine being "failed" and "mawkish" in the GB1 commentary; instead we get the sleazy display Moranis and Potts phoned in in GB2, which is Epic Fail.



yes but that was before the true power of the fan was known . something that has bin gaining power in the last some odd years .

we brought 2 tv shows back from the dead , ( family guy and futurama )

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 Post subject: Re: Annie Potts in GBII
PostPosted: April 13th, 2008, 10:05 am 
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Yes, which brings me to, exactly HOW DID people know where to send mail re: how they feel about the show? That was back in the days before the Internet so there were no message boards for producers and writers to peruse, and they didn't flash the address at the end of every episode, so how did people, especially the kids, know where to write to? It's so easy now with the World Wide Web to send an email or even find the mailing address, but as a child, I wouldn't know the first place to look...and I can't imagine anyone else would either.

In any case, I'm glad they did, because I walked out of GBII feeling extremely unsatisfied re: Janine, and watched the series with baited breath hoping against hope that the L/J debacle would not be force-fed to me there too...thanks to others taking the time to put pen to paper I didn't have to deal with it there as well. Whew!

Fritz, would you happen to know what exactly what episodes the Louis/Janine thing was hinted at?


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 Post subject: Re: Annie Potts in GBII
PostPosted: April 13th, 2008, 12:04 pm 
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rgbforever wrote:
...because I walked out of GBII feeling extremely unsatisfied re: Janine, and watched the series with baited breath hoping against hope that the L/J debacle would not be force-fed to me there too...thanks to others taking the time to put pen to paper I didn't have to deal with it there as well...

Fritz, would you happen to know what exactly what episodes the Louis/Janine thing was hinted at?



the obvious one is "Partners In Slime." Because seriously, a woman doesn't bring a man to the mall unless she:
A) Wants him to pay for everything
B) Wants to "get to know him"
C) (and as she does in this episode, which i love...) Basically makes him her bitch/pack mule.

Yeah, E/J may be one of those sacred things that you're really not supposed to mess with, because they're just destined to be, but you gotta admit, Louis is Janine's bitch. She totally made him her bitch.

and that's one way of looking at it I definitely haven't heard yet.
:D


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 Post subject: Re: Annie Potts in GBII
PostPosted: April 13th, 2008, 12:05 pm 
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rgbforever wrote:
Fritz, would you happen to know what exactly what episodes the Louis/Janine thing was hinted at?

I do.
It was in "Elementary, My Dear Winston."
When Tully gets knocked over with the football Janine in a rather GBII-ish way says, "Louis... I didn't know you were so athletic. I'm impressed!"
Then later when Moriarty is attacking Janine, the Ghostbusters arrive, and Janine screams for Louis. :roll:
The thing I couldn't understand was that the episode was written by Richard Mueller, who'd always done Janine & Egon stuff in the past.
So again I felt the sting of betrayal, much like I had done when I first saw GBII. :cry: And I then resented him as much as Harold Ramis after seeing GBII for the first time.
In my little world I often think of Janine's behaviour in that episode as just trying to make Egon jealous. Afterall he was in the room both times she acted GBII-ish.

As for GBII itself. I was 13 when I first saw it at the cinema & I was wearing my GBII shirt as any lovin' fan would, having no idea that the Janine/Tully thing was going to happen.
My mum took a picture of me shortly after getting home from the cinema (which I still have) & in it I have the most sour look on my face ever!
That's how much I hated it! I didn't hate anything else in it. I was fine with the rest of it, but the sight of Janine & Tully on Peter's couch just made me homicidal! :evil:

And just for the record I would forgive Harold Ramis if he ever did own up to his mistake & apologise for it. Especially if there's any Janine & Egon subplots going on in the Ghostbusters video game. ;) (fingers crossed)

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 Post subject: Re: Annie Potts in GBII
PostPosted: April 13th, 2008, 2:27 pm 
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rgbforever wrote:
Yes, which brings me to, exactly HOW DID people know where to send mail re: how they feel about the show? That was back in the days before the Internet so there were no message boards for producers and writers to peruse, and they didn't flash the address at the end of every episode, so how did people, especially the kids, know where to write to? It's so easy now with the World Wide Web to send an email or even find the mailing address, but as a child, I wouldn't know the first place to look...and I can't imagine anyone else would either.


There were ways. Certainly the Now Comic had a mailing address that was printed in every issue. Celebrities have been getting fan mail for ages. A library was probably a good place to look for such things, like the mailing addresses of TV and movie studios. (For the kids: the library was this building that kept books. It was kind of an analog predecessor of Wikipedia :P )

Quote:
The thing I couldn't understand was that the episode was written by Richard Mueller, who'd always done Janine & Egon stuff in the past.


It was an early episode, I think the second full 1/2 hour one of the 1989 season. Mueller's gotta write for his producers, and I would guess that, early on, when told that "Janine will be with Louis in the movie" they tried to follow suit...and then either got as squicked out as the fans, the fans buried them with aforementioned hate mail, or both, and before you know it we have her running up and kissing Egon with Louis right there in "Ghostbusters Live From Al Capone's Tomb".

Quote:
And just for the record I would forgive Harold Ramis if he ever did own up to his mistake & apologise for it. Especially if there's any Janine & Egon subplots going on in the Ghostbusters video game. (fingers crossed)


Aren't we all? There are a couple of hopeful signs. First is that, at last I heard, Moranis wasn't going to be involved. And the second is, well, the sheer amount of fan pandering this thing seems to be wanting to heap on. It'd be the perfect opportunity to Ramis to reverse himself without having to admit he was wrong: "Well, the game producers made it clear that they preferred we follow fan sentiment on this matter..."

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 Post subject: Re: Annie Potts in GBII
PostPosted: April 13th, 2008, 2:56 pm 
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so you getting happier over this then ?? . ( I'm still holding out till June to get pumped on the game . )


man you know i feel like I'm the only guy that doesn't hate Louis. I keep getting the feeling that if you all want to condemn him for something that's not completely his fault .

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 Post subject: Re: Annie Potts in GBII
PostPosted: April 13th, 2008, 4:40 pm 
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jason knetge wrote:
so you getting happier over this then ?? . ( I'm still holding out till June to get pumped on the game . )


I don't know about that...just feeling more confident in being able to ignore it if I think it sucks.

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man you know i feel like I'm the only guy that doesn't hate Louis. I keep getting the feeling that if you all want to condemn him for something that's not completely his fault .


I completely understand what you're saying. I gave up my hate for the character years ago--I even discovered I sympathized with him a lot. If you haven't read Hearts In Eclipse do so. I also think you'll be pleasantly surprised by Book Six of "Chronicles of Gozer" ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Annie Potts in GBII
PostPosted: April 13th, 2008, 10:39 pm 
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i envy all of you that say you saw GB in theatres.

okay, if GBII came out before October of 89, then i wasn't even born yet.

i feel like the baby up here! Fritz, please tell me I'm not the youngest one on this thing. Srsly. (Hahaha, you said "squicked." I'ma use that...)


Don't hate on Tully. Dorks and Nerds need love too.

If I can think of any more episodes that have that sort of thingymadoojyflopper in 'em, yall will be first to know.

...and I do thank you from the depths of my heart for the potential forgiveness of the error or Ramis's ways. It made me happeh.


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 Post subject: Re: Annie Potts in GBII
PostPosted: April 13th, 2008, 11:10 pm 
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Just out of sheer curiousity, (and I'm directing this not only to Fritz but to anybody else who may have inside information), regarding the Egon/Louis/Janine triangle, does anybody have proof that it definately was indeed fanmail that made the writers/producers have a change of heart re: Janine's love interest?

I'm not saying it's not believeable, it definately is...but what if it was the WRITERS and PRODUCERS of RGB who, after having years of working on this animated series, had developed a loyalty to the characters and the relationships they had fostered and nurtured over the years and simply decided to change things back to the way they were themselves? Did Ramis really have a say in the cartoon? Maybe late one night over coffee at 1:00am Jansen said to Melville "What do you think about this Janine/Louis crap?" and Melville said "F**K IT! I'm not feeling it...we've brought her and Egon through so much...no one will care...let's just stick to the status quo" and they just did what they wanted -- would Ramis really care enough to make the cartoon consistent with the movie anyways? When the movie was done and finished, and the cartoon continuing on, maybe he didn't care at that point...if he was keeping tabs at all...

I'm just saying, it's a possiblity...because if fan mail was so powerful, why didn't Janine revert back to her old self? Why wasn't Lorenzo brought back as Peter? Why did Slimer continue to get his little specialty cartoons?

Not trying to play devil's advocate, trust me, I love the idea of fans uprising to keep Janine with Egon, I'm just wondering how many actually cared enough to put pen to paper, get the address, stamp, find an envelope, stuff it, and take it to the mailbox. Because as much as I liked them, even I didn't care THAT much. :oops:

Thoughts?

P.S. For the record, I have no hate for Louis, I just don't like people dipping their pen into other people's inkwells (did I say that right? :? )...and yes, the episode re: the mall did not come across as relationshipy, but rather, that she was out with her gay friend *smirk* :lol: ...Janine would NEVER make Egon carry her stuff...

But yeah I had that "oh look, he's her bitch" mentality about that scene too :D


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 Post subject: Re: Annie Potts in GBII
PostPosted: April 14th, 2008, 4:38 am 
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Fritz wrote:
It was an early episode, I think the second full 1/2 hour one of the 1989 season. Mueller's gotta write for his producers, and I would guess that, early on, when told that "Janine will be with Louis in the movie" they tried to follow suit...and then either got as squicked out as the fans, the fans buried them with aforementioned hate mail, or both, and before you know it we have her running up and kissing Egon with Louis right there in "Ghostbusters Live From Al Capone's Tomb".

I hate to burst ya bubble Fritz, and as much it pains me to say this, Janine doesn't actually kiss Egon in that moment, she merely hugs him. I've watched that part many, many times so I can say that with 100% certainty.
Sorry, I'm just stating the facts. :|
She does however run up to him, hug him & kiss him in "Egon's Ghost." :D

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 Post subject: Re: Annie Potts in GBII
PostPosted: April 14th, 2008, 8:08 am 
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JECrazy wrote:
Fritz wrote:
It was an early episode, I think the second full 1/2 hour one of the 1989 season. Mueller's gotta write for his producers, and I would guess that, early on, when told that "Janine will be with Louis in the movie" they tried to follow suit...and then either got as squicked out as the fans, the fans buried them with aforementioned hate mail, or both, and before you know it we have her running up and kissing Egon with Louis right there in "Ghostbusters Live From Al Capone's Tomb".

I hate to burst ya bubble Fritz, and as much it pains me to say this, Janine doesn't actually kiss Egon in that moment, she merely hugs him. I've watched that part many, many times so I can say that with 100% certainty.
Sorry, I'm just stating the facts. :|
She does however run up to him, hug him & kiss him in "Egon's Ghost." :D


Whew! I thought I was the only one that didn't see it, or was watching some weird edited version -- unless it happened right at the very, very end (which is where I think the episode I watched got cut off) there is a hug but no kiss. Boooooo.


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 Post subject: Re: Annie Potts in GBII
PostPosted: April 14th, 2008, 9:31 am 
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rgbforever wrote:
Just out of sheer curiousity, (and I'm directing this not only to Fritz but to anybody else who may have inside information), regarding the Egon/Louis/Janine triangle, does anybody have proof that it definately was indeed fanmail that made the writers/producers have a change of heart re: Janine's love interest?

I'm not saying it's not believeable, it definately is...but what if it was the WRITERS and PRODUCERS of RGB who, after having years of working on this animated series, had developed a loyalty to the characters and the relationships they had fostered and nurtured over the years and simply decided to change things back to the way they were themselves? Did Ramis really have a say in the cartoon? Maybe late one night over coffee at 1:00am Jansen said to Melville "What do you think about this Janine/Louis crap?" and Melville said "F**K IT! I'm not feeling it...we've brought her and Egon through so much...no one will care...let's just stick to the status quo" and they just did what they wanted -- would Ramis really care enough to make the cartoon consistent with the movie anyways? When the movie was done and finished, and the cartoon continuing on, maybe he didn't care at that point...if he was keeping tabs at all...

I'm just saying, it's a possiblity...because if fan mail was so powerful, why didn't Janine revert back to her old self? Why wasn't Lorenzo brought back as Peter? Why did Slimer continue to get his little specialty cartoons?

Not trying to play devil's advocate, trust me, I love the idea of fans uprising to keep Janine with Egon, I'm just wondering how many actually cared enough to put pen to paper, get the address, stamp, find an envelope, stuff it, and take it to the mailbox. Because as much as I liked them, even I didn't care THAT much.


I freely admit it's only a theory. Short of asking the cartoon producers and/or James Van Hise, the Now writer at the time, there's no way of knowing for sure. And yes, I do consider it just as possible that the cartoon and comic writers went "Hm...no." all on their own. Of course, I also know that Now had at least one pro-Egon/Janine advocate writing long letters to them, expressing disdain for the idea pretty much from the moment Annie Potts said on Arsenio Hall's talk show, c. February 1989, "Rick Moranis and I are an item in this one" :puke:

And there was some fan reaction to Janine's changes, at least, according to JMS.

http://www.protoncharging.com/ghostbust ... b_jms.html

Quote:
And, in time, they kinda realized that I was right, and the consultants were wrong...mainly when the mailbags filled with angry letters from mothers and young girls raising ten kinds of hell.


Quote:
I hate to burst ya bubble Fritz, and as much it pains me to say this, Janine doesn't actually kiss Egon in that moment, she merely hugs him. I've watched that part many, many times so I can say that with 100% certainty.
Sorry, I'm just stating the facts.


:lol: ...the memory cheats sometimes. But even the scene you describe is pretty damning from the Janine/Louis perspective, isn't it? That's the essential point--Janine acting that relieved to see Egon and running up to him that eagarly with Louis standing right there. That was still the moment that basically assured us that, from the cartoon standpoint, Janine and Louis as a couple were Officially Doomed.

The comic, as some of you know, was even more direct about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Annie Potts in GBII
PostPosted: April 14th, 2008, 12:42 pm 
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Quote:
And there was some fan reaction to Janine's changes, at least, according to JMS.

http://www.protoncharging.com/ghostbust ... b_jms.html


Gosh darn it, I love that man!!!!! Not many men will go to bat for a female animated cartoon character...so he gets 'nuff respect from me for that! I tip my hat to him...

Quote:
The comic, as some of you know, was even more direct about it.


*sigh* I need a cigarette after that, it gave me so much satisfaction 8-) ...I wish I knew about those comic books earlier...so glad to know that most of the public was NOT on board with this atrocity...


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 Post subject: Re: Annie Potts in GBII
PostPosted: April 14th, 2008, 2:19 pm 
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Okay I have lots to say and don't feel like quoting, so try to keep up, lol ;)

So, firstly, and unrelated...I got a dog! A puppy really a shih tzu. She was needing a home she is 4 months old and has been passed to 6 people, sad. Anyway, I like her. She isn't trained to go outside though, so I am spending a lot of time working with her on that!

So now to the topic...

Back in the day, people used the mail for correspondence, something typically refered to a 'snail mail' today. They even had to mail order fanfiction which came in the form of books called 'zines'. Anyway, the book that I was talking about on another thread has many siblings out there in the world, and it, like its siblings I'm sure, has an appendix of all of the places having to do with cartoons and toy manufacturers with the addresses and names of people that they can contact to complain about various issues. I assume many a borded housewife got out their handy word processors and let a lot of production companies know what they thought, back in the day.

I can scan the pages if you don't believe me, lots of addresses to choose from.

I also want to know who was awesome enough to scan the comic! You are the coolest person, whoever you are!

Next, is that after some contemplation, it does seem slightly more hopeful than originally thought that E/J could happen in the video game. I mean, they were going that direction in EGB, right? Who decided that? Did we, did Sony, did Danny? I don't know, but that seems to play in our favor. Also, the video game site listed GBI as a site to see right? and you guys write fanfiction that explores franchising but it also has E/J married in it, right? So they must have at least read that much somewhere down the line.

I'm still worried that it will not be up to expectations though, :(

Anyway, I really hope that the Janine/Louis issue can stay a GBII based abberation and not a full scale assault on all that I hold dear.

ghostdiva

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 Post subject: Re: Annie Potts in GBII
PostPosted: April 14th, 2008, 5:44 pm 
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whoahhhhh...
give me a cigarette and two shots of Goldschlager, cos my head is spinning after reading all that.

congrats on the puppy by the way!!!


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